Gaza's telecommunications company once# again announced a commun But there is another front in this war, and# it's taking place on our screens worldwide.## Fake or mislabeled content linked to the war# has been viewed online millions of times.
To explore this issue, Amna spoke# earlier with Shayan Sardarizadeh,## a senior journalist with BBC monitoring's# disinformation team, and Valerie Wirtschafter,## a fellow studying technology and foreign# policy at the Brookings Institution.
AMNA NAWAZ: Thank you to you both for# joining us.
We really appreciate it.
Valerie, I want to start with you.
You have looked at misinf conflicts too.
What is different about this# work when it comes to this specific con VALERIE WIRTSCHAFTER, Brookings Institution:# I think what's different here is that this is## really, I think, an emotionally resonant con of this confirmation bias, this ability to# kind of just discount confirming evidence.
All of those things, I think,# are really in play here.
AMNA NAWAZ: And the reach, Valerie,## just to follow u Video that claimed to be Israeli forces shooting# at Israelis at the music festival on Oc that was seen 30 million times.# There was the fake claims about## a 5-month-old Palestinian baby who was# killed in an airstrike that people were## claiming was a doll.
That went viral.# It was published in the Israeli press.
I mean, does the global interest in# this war mean that that misinformation,## disinformation gets spread even faster?
VALERIE WIRTSCHAFTER: I think shocking# things The boring stuff, the truth when we can get to# the bottom of things, that's far less resonant,## I think.
And so when there are kind of claims# being logged back and forth, they get amplified.
AMNA NAWAZ: Shayan, you have the near-impossible# job of trying to verify some of these videos,## to debunk the disinformation that's# out there and verify what you can.
We have seen in this war too just images# from other places, images from Syria,## for example, being passed off# as something that was unfolding## in Gaza.
How do you even begin to# verify what's real and what's SH AYAN SARDARIZADEH, BBC Verify: It's not an# easy task because of the volume of content that## is being posted and has been posted since# this conflict be And, obviously, the nature of this# conflict is a little bit different to,## say, the conflict that we're seeing in# Ukraine or, before that, the conflict in## Syria.
This is a conflict that's been going on# for decades and decades and decades and decades.
People have already sort of jumped into# this with sort of their minds completely## made up.
And, already, they assume# that they're in an information war## and they have to win it at any cost,# at any cost, even if it means denying## that a 5-month-old Palestinian baby was# actually a real baby, and not a doll,## and his mother, who was just showing that baby# to photographers in grief, was not faking it.
Or that a 16-year-old Israeli teenager# whose parents were killed in front of## him in a kibbutz near the border with Gaza on# the 7th of October is not a crisis actor and## is not basically holding his laughter# in front of cameras as he's giving an## interview recounting how he saw his parents get# killed in their house in front of his own e AMNA NAWAZ: Valerie, how does the origin of some# of this disinformation matter in this conflict?
I'm thinking specifically of a video# I know was widely covered.
The Israel## Defense Forces shared a list that was# posted in a basement of a Gaza hospital.## They said it was a list of Hamas members, a# schedule for them guarding Israeli hostages.## It was actually a calendar in which the# days of the week were listed in Arabic.
But that video was reported on widely# by a number of other news organizations.## It's coming through official channels.
How does# that change the nature of this information war?
VALERIE WIRTSCHAFTER: I think it creates# sort of just an immediate ability to## distrust any purveyor of information# who is in the region, on the gr Potentially, given the destruction# and the violence in this conflict,## there are so few people that are actually on the# ground, those that are on the grou have kind of a vested interest in the information# space.
And so we can see it with the IDF and the## calendar example you mentioned trafficking# in conspiracies or misleading information.
Journalists who want to get into Gaza have to# go with the IDF.
That's maybe innocuous.
Maybe## it's just to review footage to make sure that# identities aren't revealed or things like that,## but it's immediately sort of ability to dismiss,## given past -- whether it's massaging the# truth, completely fabricating or sort of seeding alternative narratives,# it's immediately disqualifying as well.
On the other side of the coin,# of course, Hamas, I think,## has long looked unfavorably on journalists.# Why -- from the Israeli perspective or from## those who sort of are sympathetic with# the Israeli cause, why believe them now?
And so I think that that's# a really huge challenge.
AMNA NAWAZ: Valerie, what's the# real-world impact of thi of disinformation spreading as# widely and as quickly as it does?
VALERIE WIRTSCHAFTER: Maybe an example# is the best way to answer that question,## is, looking at the kind of aftermath and# ambiguity around the hospital bombing of earlier in the conflict, sort of there was a# knee-jerk reaction to kind of cover this event.
All the information wasn't known.
Mainstream media# outlets jumped on it, of course.
Protests erupted,## and then several diplomatic meetings were# canceled as a result.
In this conflict,## conversation and those types of high-level# communications are so important,## but it wasn't allowed to move forward# simply because protests and sort of the## unwillingness of governance# to engage after that event.
And the challenge, of course, with that# event is that it was very unclear what## happened.
There was not a lot of# on-the-ground reporting at all at## the time.
And then, in the aftermath,# more information was pieced together.
AMNA NAWAZ: Shayan, I have said before this war# is extremely online.
And were it not for social## media and a lot of online platforms, you have# to think about what we wouldn't see when it## comes to both the October 7 attacks and also# what's been unfolding on the ground in Gaza.
With people getting so much information and# so much content, how do you advise them on## what they should do, how they should view all of# this in sorting out what's real from what's not?
SHAYAN SARDARIZADEH: Well, it# is not easy.
It's not an easy## question for me.
It's not an# easy question for journalists,## never mind the ordinary member of the public who# It's important to just, first of all,# to be careful about the source.
Who's## saying this?
How biased are they?
What type of# narrative are they pushing?
Just hav at their profile online.
Again, they might# have hundreds of thousands of followers,## millions of followers, but are they actually# pushing a certain narrative, a certain agen Or are they somebody who's genuinely or# an outlet who's genuinely trying to tell## the story of the conflict without putting# any personal bias into it?
See whether this## video that has got 10 million views, has it# been reported anywhere else?
Has any of the## journalists who are either in Israel or# in Gaza mentioned this, referred to it?
Try and follow people, actual journalists who# are on the ground or actual people, witnesses,## eyewitnesses who have reliably posted videos# from what's happening on the ground on several## occasions before this particular video.
So,# if you see something that is incredibly viral,## that doesn't necessarily mean it's true.
It# also doesn't necessarily mean it's false.
It just means, with a conflict like# this, we all have to be careful.
If## you're not 100 percent, the best# thing to do is just not share it.
AMNA NAWAZ: I'm so grateful to both of you for the# work you do to make sure the facts get ou Shayan Sardarizadeh and Valerie Wirtschafter,# thank you so much for your time.
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